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PyCon2008 video: What Zope did wrong, and how it’s being fixed

October 26, 2008

My talk at PyCon 2008 is now up on youtube. I only had half an hour, which was tricky to do, but made the talk better and less chatty. Probably the best version of the talk, although the five minute version at  Plone Strategic Planning Summit 2008 might be almost as good. 🙂

Listen to it while looking at the slides. I should make a version of this that goes “bing” everytime you should move to the next slide. 😉

I should use the words “fluffy cloud learning curve” more.

  1. While I think you made a lot of good points, I disagree strongly with your negative view of through-the-web editing. It’s the primary reason I use Zope, and I know of many users who also like it for that reason.
    While Zope has many nice features, that is the single nicest one and the lousy support for it is a major showstopper for Zope 3 for me, at least.

  2. Through-the-web-editing is great. Through-the-web-development is a fun starting point, but the drawbacka of it for serious development are too great. I’m convinced most of the usecases for it can be done with configuration and easy content type creation. Largely it’s a matter of taste, of course.

  3. I tend to agree with Regebro. While TTW development serves great as a starting point, sometimes the work to modify the code produced to suit a project’s needs only causes too much of a time drain.

  4. It’s worth noting that much a big theme in a lot of the cutting-edge Zope work is about building a “sane” TTW story that allows for seamless roundtripping between TTW and filesystem code. Dexterity (a successor to the Archteypes content type system) will do this, and Deliverance (our new theming system) could be easily enhanced with a TTW editor. We’re also unifying Zope 3’s “customerizer” with Zope 2’s TTW skin editing.

    So, TTW isn’t dead, it’s just being born again in a way so that it’s not required, but it’s also not a dead-end.

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